Michelle Bachelet was as a young woman tortured and exiled by the Chilean government. She went on to become the country’s first female president, in 2006. Trained as a pediatrician, an epidemiologist, and a military strategist, she also led Chile’s ministries of health and defense. She is now the executive director of UN Women. Interviewed by Katherine Bell Listen to the interview this piece is based on. Download this podcast HBR: How did the horrific treatment of your family by the Pinochet regime affect your ideas about leadership? Bachelet: It reinforced the idea that we always need to fight against fundamentalism. There is no good and bad, no monopoly of one side or another. You need to ask yourself, Are people struggling for an idea or vision that is against the human drive, and what will be the cost? I’m not advising that you should compromise on everything and not make decisions. But you need to make them considering all factors, and to try to produce agreement. How did organizing activists in exile prepare you to lead the government? I have been organizing things since I was born—camping trips, picnics, music festivals. I was always proposing ideas and implementing them. Exile was a continuation of that. We did what we needed to do, what we thought should be done. That time opened my mind to different cultures, which in turn enriched my capacity to see through the eyes of others when I analyze issues. When you are a leader, it’s very important to understand why other people do not think as you do. You’ve tackled major reforms in every ministry or agency you’ve led, and you’re doing that again, bringing several agencies together at the U.N. What do you think makes organizations willing and able to change? There’s always resistance to change in organizations that have been functioning for a long time. First of all, as a leader, you have to clearly establish the vision and objectives of the new organization. And then you ask yourself, Is this structure conducive to achieving those goals? If not, you have to identify the obstacles and define a new kind of architecture. Then you need to socialize this new point of view. You need people to be convinced that this is the way we have to do things. It’s not a waste of time to have all the necessary meetings and communication. This is not an easy matter. You need time, persistence, and patience. You have to push hard all the way around. You studied medicine and military strategy. What lessons did you take from those disciplines? Medicine taught me to look as deep as possible, to try to understand the roots of a problem before proposing solutions. It taught me to consider all the different options and find a “medicine” that will really solve the problem and not just look like you solved it. And from my military studies I learned that when you make a decision, you not only have to make sure it is grounded in evidence, in good information and good arguments, but you also have to put yourself in the shoes of the people who will be impacted by the decision. At the same time, opportunity is essential. You can’t lose momentum. What do you think made you successful as the first woman defense minister and president in a conservative country? Before I held those roles, I served as Chile’s first female minister of health, but that was linked to the kind of activities women always perform. Everybody saw me working hard and speaking the truth. When I was appointed minister of defense, power was the issue. They saw I was in command. I had the knowledge, and I was very active—flying planes, riding on a tank. When I became president, my nonconfrontational way of working was important. I pulled people to the center, understanding that the system has to adjust to the people and not the contrary. That created a lot of credibility and helped us implement reforms. You promised to and did appoint women to 50% of the positions in your cabinet. How did that turn out? Parity was a principle not only in the cabinet but all over the government—it applied to all the politically appointed positions. I always asked for many names so that I could choose the best people on the basis of their CVs and their capacities and skills. In some areas, of course, we didn’t have enough women and in other areas we had too few men. But if you looked at the whole government, we achieved parity. I think this is very important because a female president is not enough in terms of changing mind-set and culture. We needed to progress even faster in terms of how people were perceiving women. What should women do to address the pay gap? If you approach the problem individually, it’s a very long way to go. It’s very important that women organize with other women, and develop networks and new organizations if necessary, so that they can share experiences and learn from good practices and know that they are not alone. It’s important for women to understand that this gap in opportunities is not a personal issue, it’s a structural issue, and you need to make changes at a structural level. For that you need to show force, and so creating networks will help a lot. Also, try to bring aboard a lot of men who can really understand the importance of a better world for both women and men. As a single mother, how did you manage your work and home schedules? I am always trying to do everything perfectly, but of course I wasn’t perfect. I did my best. I tried to be very well organized and teach the kids how to live in an environment where Mom is working a lot. I would cook for the whole week and put notes on the kitchen table explaining everything: what the kids have to do, and who to call in case of what, and, of course, I’d make sure that if it was necessary they could always reach me. It’s not easy, but it can be done. Chile suffered a massive earthquake in your last days in office. How did you handle that? Everybody told me that you need to avoid the tendency to do as much as you can before you leave office because your time has ended and now is the time for the new people. But of course the last 16 days of my presidency I was completely dedicated to the earthquake and all its consequences, and I had to be involved until the last minute. That was not only my job but my duty.
